Comments on: 40 Yard Dash Times for Usain Bolt and Ben Johnson http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/ Success in Track & Field ... and Life Wed, 23 May 2012 21:21:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Frank the Tank http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-261578 Frank the Tank Tue, 10 Apr 2012 05:48:41 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-261578 3 downs are hard to sell? The CFL in its current form has been around since the 1950's! And the trophy for the league has been around for 100 years! How stupid and ignorant are you. 3 downs are hard to sell? The CFL in its current form has been around since the 1950′s! And the trophy for the league has been around for 100 years! How stupid and ignorant are you.

]]> By: Bryano http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-233155 Bryano Fri, 20 Jan 2012 18:37:02 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-233155 There is a huge difference between hand times( football)and electronic times (sprinters). Hand times are very inaccurate. I know from years of timing track races that I'm usually at least .4 off the electronic time. This is simply due to the fact of reaction time. Most of the great 40y times that you hear about in football are hand times. Officially its a .24 difference, but that is only when you have trained officials and they are standing right beside the gun. There is a huge difference between hand times( football)and electronic times (sprinters). Hand times are very inaccurate. I know from years of timing track races that I’m usually at least .4 off the electronic time. This is simply due to the fact of reaction time. Most of the great 40y times that you hear about in football are hand times. Officially its a .24 difference, but that is only when you have trained officials and they are standing right beside the gun.

]]> By: Mike http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-225347 Mike Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:50:06 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-225347 Reaction, Acceleration, Transition, Maintenance -- this way of seeing the 100 m is, in my view, both accurate AND telling when it comes to comparing sprints of different distances. I quite agree that the first pass comparison (subtract start, find average speed, extrapolate, add back start) is too simple to make accurate comparisons, and misses the boat for the 60y or 60m dashes because the finish line comes before the end of the acceleration phase for the top sprinters (but just barely) and there is no Maintenance in those races. (I agree as well that 100m en route splits miss the potential for adjustments in training and racing.) And while I agree that the higher one's max velocity, the longer the acceleration phase as a rule, I must disagree that one cannot alter the acceleration phase. Take Jesse Owen's old bunch/kangaroo start -- you get out of the blocks a bit faster with slighter better turnover but you never hit your optimal stride pattern -- that's an obvious and simple way to hit the 40y faster but hurt the 100m finish time. And there are other adjustments possible to increase your short sprint time at a cost to final velocity or maintenance. I have one other note: I was football/track throughout my career and there are more incentives in football -- there may well be football flyers who could have competed at the top levels in track but had no incentive to drop the generalist training program of football to do so. Reaction, Acceleration, Transition, Maintenance — this way of seeing the 100 m is, in my view, both accurate AND telling when it comes to comparing sprints of different distances. I quite agree that the first pass comparison (subtract start, find average speed, extrapolate, add back start) is too simple to make accurate comparisons, and misses the boat for the 60y or 60m dashes because the finish line comes before the end of the acceleration phase for the top sprinters (but just barely) and there is no Maintenance in those races. (I agree as well that 100m en route splits miss the potential for adjustments in training and racing.) And while I agree that the higher one’s max velocity, the longer the acceleration phase as a rule, I must disagree that one cannot alter the acceleration phase. Take Jesse Owen’s old bunch/kangaroo start — you get out of the blocks a bit faster with slighter better turnover but you never hit your optimal stride pattern — that’s an obvious and simple way to hit the 40y faster but hurt the 100m finish time. And there are other adjustments possible to increase your short sprint time at a cost to final velocity or maintenance. I have one other note: I was football/track throughout my career and there are more incentives in football — there may well be football flyers who could have competed at the top levels in track but had no incentive to drop the generalist training program of football to do so.

]]> By: Splendid1000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-194148 Splendid1000 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:17:50 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-194148 Football players, especially NFL players, ARE world class athletes/runners, often times with world class speed, so don't you think they would want to exploit that talent by making millions in the NFL ? Not saying sprinters don't make good money, to be honest I'm not sure what they make on average, but I'm pretty sure they aren't bringing in the cash that top football players bring in. Football ( IMO ) is a lot more fun too :) Football players, especially NFL players, ARE world class athletes/runners, often times with world class speed, so don’t you think they would want to exploit that talent by making millions in the NFL ? Not saying sprinters don’t make good money, to be honest I’m not sure what they make on average, but I’m pretty sure they aren’t bringing in the cash that top football players bring in. Football ( IMO ) is a lot more fun too :)

]]> By: Splendid1000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-194140 Splendid1000 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:01:45 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-194140 Why is it so far fetched to think that a football player could post the same or possibly even better 40 time than a world class 100m sprinter ? ... 100m sprinters train for just that ... 100 meters, not 40 yards. 100m sprinters are often fastest at just that distance ... 100 meters, not 40 yards. 100 meter dash and 40 yard dash are two COMPLETELY different sprints. Yes, many 100m sprinters obviously have fast 40 times but, more often than not, their fastest times come after a full 100 meters, not 40 yards. A better question would be why do football players post faster 40 times than 50 or 60 meter sprinters. There's still a big difference between 50 meters and 40 yards, but it's a much better comparison than 100 meters vs 40 yards at least. You guys are acting like professional football players are just a bunch of muscleheads/entertainers playing a ' game ' and that they don't focus on speed like sprinters do when the exact opposite is true. Speed/acceleration/explosiveness are usually THE most important factors in football. Whether you are talking about 2 yards, 5 yards, 10 yards, 40 yards or even 60 yards, EVERY position on the field relies on speed/quickness HEAVILY and 99% of the time 40 yard and less speed is MUCH more important than 100 meter speed, so that is what they train for and they train their asses off lol. Players that post the fastest 40 times are often decorated collegiate sprinters as well and could have had tremendous careers in track so it's not that surprising that the fastest NFL players post world class 40 times because thats what they train extremely hard for. Just like 100m specialize in 100 meters, NFL players specialize in 40 yards or less. Some positions like kick/punt returners, cornerbacks and receivers obviously train for 60+ yards too, but 40 yards or less is usually the focus for all players and is a lot more important based on the nature of the game. Why is it so far fetched to think that a football player could post the same or possibly even better 40 time than a world class 100m sprinter ? … 100m sprinters train for just that … 100 meters, not 40 yards. 100m sprinters are often fastest at just that distance … 100 meters, not 40 yards. 100 meter dash and 40 yard dash are two COMPLETELY different sprints. Yes, many 100m sprinters obviously have fast 40 times but, more often than not, their fastest times come after a full 100 meters, not 40 yards. A better question would be why do football players post faster 40 times than 50 or 60 meter sprinters. There’s still a big difference between 50 meters and 40 yards, but it’s a much better comparison than 100 meters vs 40 yards at least. You guys are acting like professional football players are just a bunch of muscleheads/entertainers playing a ‘ game ‘ and that they don’t focus on speed like sprinters do when the exact opposite is true. Speed/acceleration/explosiveness are usually THE most important factors in football. Whether you are talking about 2 yards, 5 yards, 10 yards, 40 yards or even 60 yards, EVERY position on the field relies on speed/quickness HEAVILY and 99% of the time 40 yard and less speed is MUCH more important than 100 meter speed, so that is what they train for and they train their asses off lol. Players that post the fastest 40 times are often decorated collegiate sprinters as well and could have had tremendous careers in track so it’s not that surprising that the fastest NFL players post world class 40 times because thats what they train extremely hard for. Just like 100m specialize in 100 meters, NFL players specialize in 40 yards or less. Some positions like kick/punt returners, cornerbacks and receivers obviously train for 60+ yards too, but 40 yards or less is usually the focus for all players and is a lot more important based on the nature of the game.

]]> By: STEVE MCKNEES http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-187900 STEVE MCKNEES Wed, 02 Nov 2011 08:11:10 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-187900 I meant I was timed 4.6 in8th grade not 4.8 = but probably was most likely only 4.7-4.8. PS I ran the 60 in indoor track. Ive divulged my times obviously for merely discussions sake My observations based on my times are not obviously that of an elite sprinter in the past, but just as one interested in training aspects and athletic performance and as an avid spectator and enthisiast. I meant I was timed 4.6 in8th grade not 4.8 = but probably was most likely only 4.7-4.8. PS I ran the 60 in indoor track. Ive divulged my times obviously for merely discussions sake My observations based on my times are not obviously that of an elite sprinter in the past, but just as one interested in training aspects and athletic performance and as an avid spectator and enthisiast.

]]> By: STEVE MCKNEES http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-187894 STEVE MCKNEES Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:38:37 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-187894 Top reaction and acceleration can sometimes happen quicker in smaller lighter frame sprinters athletes. I was great even at an early age at the first 10-20 yards but lack body/muscle mass at longer distances to keep accelerating and maibtain speed. So I turned in a great 40. But I was a mediocre 100 sprinter. I ended up bein an ok 60 sprinter 6.4 in college. Nut as a jr high and high school football player did not have the size or strength, and just relied on my speed and agility, which others catch up later on to. I still admire smaller players in college and fewer in NFL that have not only speed, quickness, agility and mental acuity but mental and physical guts to actually suceed in the sport. That you cannot measure with a stop watch or electronics. The 40 is just one of many measurements and does not guarantee performance success. I would like to theorize though that if we had an event for 40 yard dash, that maybe indeed Husain Bolt and other world class 100m sprinters mau not end up the fastest at the 50 , just as most 200m and 400m world class sprinters are not the fastest 100m sprinters. Maybe a more compact leaner mass/body to leg ratio body type may be better suited or maybe a larger as many big defensive line men can blast good 20-40 yards but perhaps if leeaner, not sure, but thats why I think many high schoolers , 8th grade and up can turn in a good 40 yrd. time comparable to older larger and much more talented football players who specialize in their position versus a 16 year old that plays both sides of the ball at several positions and plays basketball and on the track team, but has not reached the level and compete with larger stronger players as to need to add muscle mass also to be successful and to endure being a running back etc. You may think wow if he can to a 4.45 at 15-1617 what can he do later may actually slow down as they get taller bigger or just slightly faster. I do think most of these times in high school are flawed and habdheld timed errors. Probably add .15 to.25 to times. But possible some are legit. But I doubt not much than a handful below 4.4 or 4.5. I was timed at 4.8 in 8th grade anoher guy was 4.3 and he was so much faster and older looking than any other back inthee league and ran a 10.3 in the 100 yard das (in 8th grade) but I only did 11.2 so i doubt if he ran a 4.3 prob 4.5 and mine was prob more like 4.75 as a timed start in 12th grade was 4.49 for me, which was probably right because an electronic best time in college was a 4.43 and I was done playing football just track. Unless they are a known phenom speedster that is tearing up the track and grid iron, i doubt sub 4.3 or even 4.4 legit electronic timed dashes exist for high school players. But again speed is nice but not everything in football. In track , its almost everything along with consistency and mental focus. Top reaction and acceleration can sometimes happen quicker in smaller lighter frame sprinters athletes. I was great even at an early age at the first 10-20 yards but lack body/muscle mass at longer distances to keep accelerating and maibtain speed. So I turned in a great 40.
But I was a mediocre 100 sprinter. I ended up bein an ok 60 sprinter 6.4 in college. Nut as a jr high and high school football player did not have the size or strength, and just relied on my speed and agility, which others catch up later on to. I still admire smaller players in college and fewer in NFL that have not only speed, quickness, agility and mental acuity but mental and physical guts to actually suceed in the sport. That you cannot measure with a stop watch or electronics. The 40 is just one of many measurements and does not guarantee performance success. I would like to theorize though that if we had an event for 40 yard dash, that maybe indeed Husain Bolt and other world class 100m sprinters mau not end up the fastest at the 50 , just as most 200m and 400m world class sprinters are not the fastest 100m sprinters. Maybe a more compact leaner mass/body to leg ratio body type may be better suited or maybe a larger as many big defensive line men can blast good 20-40 yards but perhaps if leeaner, not sure, but thats why I think many high schoolers , 8th grade and up can turn in a good 40 yrd. time comparable to older larger and much more talented football players who specialize in their position versus a 16 year old that plays both sides of the ball at several positions and plays basketball and on the track team, but has not reached the level and compete with larger stronger players as to need to add muscle mass also to be successful and to endure being a running back etc. You may think wow if he can to a 4.45 at 15-1617 what can he do later may actually slow down as they get taller bigger or just slightly faster. I do think most of these times in high school are flawed and habdheld timed errors. Probably add .15 to.25 to times. But possible some are legit. But I doubt not much than a handful below 4.4 or 4.5. I was timed at 4.8 in 8th grade anoher guy was 4.3 and he was so much faster and older looking than any other back inthee league and ran a 10.3 in the 100 yard das (in 8th grade) but I only did 11.2 so i doubt if he ran a 4.3 prob 4.5 and mine was prob more like 4.75 as a timed start in 12th grade was 4.49 for me, which was probably right because an electronic best time in college was a 4.43 and I was done playing football just track.
Unless they are a known phenom speedster that is tearing up the track and grid iron, i doubt sub 4.3 or even 4.4 legit electronic timed dashes exist for high school players. But again speed is nice but not everything in football. In track , its almost everything along with consistency and mental focus.

]]> By: Patrick Moore http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-147559 Patrick Moore Sun, 15 May 2011 11:50:37 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-147559 To Joey Fowler - You are absolutely correct in your assumptions. Some coaches do train sprinters over the distances that you suggested. We are currently trying to determine how we can improve between 40M and 80M. To Joey Fowler – You are absolutely correct in your assumptions. Some coaches do train sprinters over the distances that you suggested. We are currently trying to determine how we can improve between 40M and 80M.

]]> By: Fred http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-108510 Fred Thu, 13 May 2010 23:19:09 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-108510 Hi rickyw, The NFL Combine is a tightly run ship with more gauges available and used than we could imagine. These guys leave nothing to chance. If there were any abnormalities with the wind factor during any time, they would have addressed the issue at that time. However, you should get props for thinking critically. Regardless of any skewed times, my Raiders grabbed 2 of the guys who had the best time by their position. The 49er's also grabbed 2. Lots of speed this year for the Bay Area. But that's nothing new for them as Speed City was right down the road in San Jose. Renaldo Nehemiah is a name that comes to mind as I think of speed and playing football in the Bay Area. Teams that drafted the player with the best time by position in this year's NFL draft: Quarterback - Jarrett Brown - San Francsicso - not drafted but signed Running Back - Jahvid Best - Detroit - 1st round Wide Receiver - Jacoby Ford - Oakland - 4th round Tight End - Dorin Dickerson - Houston - 7th round Offensive Lineman - Bruce Campbell - Oakland - 4th round Defensive Lineman - Dexter Davis - Seattle - 7th round Linebacker – Jamar Chaney - Philadelphia - 7th round Cornerback – Brandon Ghee - Cincinnati - 3rd round Safety - Taylor Mays - San Francisco - 2nd round Hi rickyw,

The NFL Combine is a tightly run ship with more gauges available and used than we could imagine. These guys leave nothing to chance. If there were any abnormalities with the wind factor during any time, they would have addressed the issue at that time. However, you should get props for thinking critically.

Regardless of any skewed times, my Raiders grabbed 2 of the guys who had the best time by their position. The 49er’s also grabbed 2. Lots of speed this year for the Bay Area. But that’s nothing new for them as Speed City was right down the road in San Jose. Renaldo Nehemiah is a name that comes to mind as I think of speed and playing football in the Bay Area.

Teams that drafted the player with the best time by position in this year’s NFL draft:

Quarterback – Jarrett Brown – San Francsicso – not drafted but signed
Running Back – Jahvid Best – Detroit – 1st round
Wide Receiver – Jacoby Ford – Oakland – 4th round
Tight End – Dorin Dickerson – Houston – 7th round
Offensive Lineman – Bruce Campbell – Oakland – 4th round
Defensive Lineman – Dexter Davis – Seattle – 7th round
Linebacker – Jamar Chaney – Philadelphia – 7th round
Cornerback – Brandon Ghee – Cincinnati – 3rd round
Safety – Taylor Mays – San Francisco – 2nd round

]]> By: rickyw http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-108493 rickyw Thu, 13 May 2010 18:27:57 +0000 http://speedendurance.com/2009/08/06/40-yard-dash-times-for-usain-bolt-and-ben-johnson/#comment-108493 Has anybody thought about the fact that in real sprint events, wind readings are involved. Does anybody ever use a wind gauge when 40 yard dashes are being timed?? Who knows what kind of hurricane winds were assisting some of the better 40 yard times recorded. Has anybody thought about the fact that in real sprint events, wind readings are involved. Does anybody ever use a wind gauge when 40 yard dashes are being timed?? Who knows what kind of hurricane winds were assisting some of the better 40 yard times recorded.

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