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Can you use your 150 meter fly time in practice to determine your 400 meter performance? A 150 fly is simply running 160 meters and timing the last 150m.
Yes and No.
First it would be scary to consider Usain Bolt’s 14.35 150 meter fly time which is probably around 13.35 subtracting 1 second for acceleration out of the blocks. My chart below doesn’t go into unknown territory, but you can easily create one yourself using Microsoft Excel. if you are curious.
Our workouts back then consisted of 3 x 150 meters with full recovery, though today in hindsight, I would limit that to only 2 x 150m.
What does this chart mean?
In 1991, I was training short-to-long and focused on the 200m with the odd 400 meters thrown in. My 150m fly times were around 15.6 back then, and it equated to several legal 22.0X FAT times. I ran a legal sub 22 second 200 meter just once, and that was into a headwind! (…Clint Austin from Texas, where are you now?)
Of course, a 15.6 sounds pedestrian compared to a 13.3, but I am human after all.
In 1992, my coach reversed my training around using a long-to-short approach, and my 150m fly times were not as fast compared to the previous year (15.8 to be exact – a 0.2 second difference), but I did run a legal 22.24 for 200 meters and a 48.36 / 48.37 in back to back Semi-Final and Final 400 meter races. This is fairly consistent to the chart.
Speed is the Key
Speed is the key here, and if you improve your speed, then your speed reserve will follow.
What does this mean to you?
According to the chart (remember, this is only a chart… a real FAT timed performance is what really matters) you will need to run at least 16.5 or faster if you want to break 50 for the 400 meters.
Since it is late May, consider a 2 x 150 meter workout (only if you are a 200/400 runner!) with full recovery and let me know your thoughts below.
Jimson Lee
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Jim
Talk about *timing* :) I actually did 3 x 150m today before I even read this 150m blog!!!. Of course, my times were a little slower (18.5), so I still have lot’s of work ahead of me if I want to break 50 points. This chart really comes in handy though and gives me a baseline to shoot for. I will let you know in a few months how I make out.
Thanks again
Philippe
@Philippe – I will send you an Excel spreadsheet with the extrapolated values.
Would this also apply to women? Or would the distances (or fly duration for that matter) change?
What do I need to do to also receive a copy of your Excel spreadsheet?
should the 2x150m flys be done with or without spikes?
@wes – with spikes
email me also with the spreadsheet please, would be interesting ,i am a38yr old vet going 18.5 fly 150 meter
I did 16.1 with running shoes but are you supposed to do it with spikes because I hate wearing spikes a practice since my shins hurt sometimes?
yo godson ,ideally spikes if your looking for an accurate timing, otherwise run on grass til your shins are pain free
Hi can you send me that spread sheet. Do you have any workout plans for the 100m, 200, 400m runner?
yo now sprinting 17 flat for 150 fly time [now39yrs vet i should say mastersathlete], correlations pretty accurate although.
How do you run the 150 though? from the 200m start in the first 50 of the straight or from the last 50 of the curve into the straight ending at the 100m finish line?
all races finish at the finish line, so the 150m start on a track is halfway on the curve.
why only 2 x 150m? thats 300m total volume, seems a bit brief for a 400m guy on a speed endurance workout, assuming 15 minutes recovery of course, and assuming were in May?
Paul Graham
we normally do 3 sets all year (i.e. 450m) but taper it down to 2 sets during competition phase or tapering phase. You can add 4x30m, and 1x60m or 1x80m to “warm up”
Hi
Is there anyway you can send me the extrapolated values for the 150m flys?
Thanks
@wes, let me find the original Excel sheet somewhere. I wrote the article in 2009!
On the topic of tapering, how much % do you cut the workouts by. On your speed endurance workouts you obviously cut 33% volume (450m – 300m). Is it the same for speed & lactate workouts. How about the weight room? Do you have any numbers or just play it by ear.
on the final 7-10 day taper before the big meet, we really cut back to almost half. It’s really a case of “holding back the tiger in the cage” as the athletes are roaring to go. For lactate workouts, just a single 1 x 300m (or 1×325) is all we need. But we keep the tempo workouts the same at 2000m. There’s nothing we can do to make them faster, but a LOT we can do to make them slower.
Hi there,
Is there anyway you can send me the extrapolated values as well. It would be really helpful for my training!
Last year i made the 2x150m three point start in 15,6 and 15,8
Mr. Lee do you have the values for women?? in the 150m flys thank so much in advance.
I coach both boys and girl sprinters and was hoping to get the excel spreadsheet to apply your timing